Egyptians I need your help with a problem I do not know what to do How do I handle my Egyptian co-renters?

Question

Hi Everyone,
I am American (living in USA) and my husband is Egyptian and very strict(grew up in Upper Egypt)He is controlling and has allot of set ideas in his mind about how a wife should behave I am in my late twenties and he is in his early forties.We have been married 8 months and I can truly say we have had no peace recently the past 4 months we have started fighting in a very very bad way,including allot of screaming and yelling because he pushes me over the edge of sanity and reason.
We live in an apartment building which we share with 2 other Egyptian families,one lives across the hall and the other downstairs from us.When we first moved in,they were very polite and even said hello to me.They are very strict as well because the wife never leaves the apartment,ive never seen her.Anyway the problem is they had a very bad bias against me because all of them have the opinion American women are no good and only Egyptian women are saints.So I was always so careful with my rep around them,I never made small talk with the men,I tried to not go out much and to cover my hair etc.But the problems between me and my controlling husband escalated,he kept wanting me to be more and more like his idea of a wife,even wanting to control me to the point I couldnt feel my own personality anymore.And he started attacking me verbally so I got defensive and attacked back and we scream and yell back and forth.No my husband came in one evening and told me the neighbors say I am trash and he should divorce me and go marry an Egyptian,one of the Egyptian men said he was married twice before to white women and he knows they are no good pieces of trash and in the end he wanted a good quiet controllable Egyptian girl.I then saw an email on his computer from his brother asking him to come home to Egypt and he will help him get married.It wounded my heart so deeply I became ill and started vomiting on a daily basis.I couldn't hold anything down.He has told me so many times that I am a piece of trash because I dont obey my husband and I yell.The neighbors stay as far away from me as they can,they think I am bad and disgusting because they have heard our fights and heard me screaming.They all have advised he leaves me.Now its gotten so bad that I have panic attacks,refuse to leave the apartment for fear I run into the neighbors,and even have slipped into a deep depression.The constant strain has given me health complications.When I met my husband I was very much innocent,I am not a piece of trash,I was raised in a religious family,but my mother never remained silent when she was angry,she always yelled I grew up in a culture where when one yells the other yells,not the wife is never allowed to yell even if her husband gets in her face.I do not understand why these neighbors think iam so bad.I have moral values,I am not a slut,I didn't have premarital sex with my husband,I wouldnt even let him touch me before marriage.I am studying Islam and try to understand his culture but I just cant understand.He also says he is offended by my crying and that he never saw any Egyptian woman cry and that I am bad.He makes me feel like being an Egyptian woman is some sort of high status of purity that I can never achieve.I am not Egyptian I have never been to Egypt and he is the only person I know.I dont understand what he wants.How can I get these neighbors to stop saying bad stuff about me to my husband and encouraging him to divorce me,It is hurting me deeply inside.How can I get my reputation back with them?

Answer 1

It may appear to be a simplistic answer but if you guys are going to have any chance at all you need to find a new apartment...away from your nosey neighbours ...away from your husband's security blanket !



If he truly loves you he will see the sense in that ...if not , you cannot keep going the way you are...

Answer 2

let us get systematic:



it appears that you two have been raised from different cultures which sometimes collide.but he has got an advantage here he has got support from ur co renters beside a support from his family in egypt all pushing him to some where which puts u in a weeker position



so to solve this problem once and for all we need to approximate these two ideas or ways of living or we have to break this engagement to reach some peace



it seems u don't want the separation..which left us with negotiation..i don't know how closely minded he is..so if it didn't work to talk to him directly..get one from ur family or supporters and one of his..and everyone puts his demands with pure intentions and see what can u reach from that..i think ur priorities should to be have a house on ur own with no co renters(though i don't know ur financial position) but i think it's a must.the idea is to set rules that u can live with of course we have to be willing to sacrifice some of ur concepts and try to make him to sacrifice some of the most urgent annoying concepts of his



i don't see other solutions other wise i think it's all pain killers but doesn't cure the disease..if u didn't set something u can work on from now then u gonna have the same issues again and again..and if it doesn't work u can't blame ur self at least u tried ur best



the most important thing is to get supports from ur beloved ones and don't concentrate ur life upon him only there are other things u can do away from him.he is not the end of the road



wish u the best..by the way i'm 22 and a male so i'm not the best one to advise u but i think the more advises u get the more righteous way u may follow.hope i ve opened a new line and ideas u can use or help u..

Answer 3

sweety , the solution for the problem is what you dont just want to ... or anyone want to ... its obvious that you are so nervous and that you cant control your anger or release it ... the other solution you are asking for ... is be what he want ... witch i belive is so hard for you ... i can bet that your a beautiful woman who just got amazed by how manly he might be because we egyptian men .. are very protective for the woman we love ... but you choose a man came from a culture where the man is dominant of the woman ... i know many would thumb me down for this but its the true ... this kind of men like their women to be their salves ... to obey him without discussion .. to be yeld at and sit and cry ... and he still would want you to come to apologize to him ... and that not bad .. at least for the women from the same culture ... she like to be controlled and fully responsible from someone else ... not like western women who like to be dependable ,, to say her opinion and make the move if she can .... other thing that maybe other women may get jelous of you ... and that not only in egypt ... that in all women ... so thats why the may turn him on you .... and i dont think that he loves you enough ... for we never insult our wifes , we have an egyptian saying .... the pain of one hour ... is much better of the pain of every hour ..... and it means that divorce maybe painful for a while .... say 1 or 2 or even 3 years ..... is much more better that experiencing what all you said your whole life ....

Answer 4

i'm an egyptian girl.

sometimes i yell, sometimes i cry.... what planet he makes u think we(Egyptian Women) are from?!!! we are human in the first place, and he shouldn't make u feel as if u r an alien.



i'm sorry i've nothing to say it to u, he is ur husband and u've to figure out by ur self the suitable way that should work with him. BUT as i've always believed woman shouldn't take too much and waste her time with a man dosn't deserve her other than treat her like a crap!

so i think try again with him if u want but don't try too much more than he deserves and remember that it's easier when there's no kids.



and about ur neighbors, don't give them a damnn .... it's ur self, ur husband and ur life that all what matters now! and don't forget abour ur self EVER!

Answer 5

Seek professional counseling. Yours is not the first inter-cultural marriage that needs help.



It's a matter of give and take. While it's beneficial for you to learn as much as you can about Egyptian customs; you husband must also learn American customs and about individual rights in the US. After all, you both live in the USA!

Answer 6

Sorry to hear all that tragedy . Look , you search for a solution that doesnt exist. its either you back up and comply to what he says - and you wont , or He backs up and complies , wich he wont.

Sounds like you married an Upper Egypt muslim , they usually marry within the family/relatives or town.

A person should respect and be respected . no matter who they are , how they look like or what their religion is . i say : find your way out and Cut your losses. Get divorced and move on with your life. Dont kid yourself by trying to save sinking boats .

i know you wont like my answer , but believe me , its the only way to go.

Answer 7

First of all I'd like to say I'm quite sorry for what your marriage is turning into. Believe it or not you aren't a rare case. First I want to list what I think is causing your husband's behavior.



1.His feelings: Upper Egypt is where you will find the most protective of all men on earth. They consider their wives very precious and protect them very well. It isn't uncommon for this to turn into over protection specially when you are in America which I imagine is strikingly different. Think culture shock different.



2.His Pride: I'm from Lower Egypt. Here we get stories of how the fearsome Upper Egyptians -"Saayda"- over react ridiculously to people who wound their honor, pride or self esteem. I remember stories like a man going on a killing spree because some one stole his turban (not true but not too far from reality either). Imagine some one from that culture being yelled at by his wife? Not only that, being yelled at in front of his countrymen from that same culture!



3.Nagging: There is a saying in Egypt, "Nagging is worse than magic". I think its quite obvious why his family aren't happy with him marrying ANY foreigner, not specifically you. And this is present in many cultures not just ours. They will go on and on about how he should have listened to them, and that email might not have been what you thought. It says nothing about your husband, but it shows how worried his family is.



4.Cultural shock: America is so so so much different. Egyptian girls aren't submissive, they expect to be pampered, they work only because they want to, and they expect their man to fulfill all their needs without them having to anything but ask. And in return they make his life easy by doing all the chores and things which make outsiders think they are slaves, when they aren't. Actually our culture is so pro-woman that women can reach the point where they completely control their man, as you say "have him wrapped around your fingers".





These are the reasons, I think I've nailed them all, or at least the big ones. Now will attempt to give you a solution.



1.Make him feel like he IS your man: Make him feel that you need this protection, that he must show his love by protecting you. Don't push it too far though. For example, ask him (calmly please!) why he lets your room mates call you names, but don't order him though.



2.Soothe his ego: Don't yell, protest. Isn't America a civilized first world country and all that? Prove it by holding decent conversations rather than yelling. But still, fill him up with the feelings any Proud person wants, appreciation, admiration, and the feeling that he is in charge (even if he really isn't), and the feeling that he won (again, even if he didn't). Starting to see a pattern here?



3.Men are stupid around women: Egyptian men are no exception and neither am I. Women can play the smartest of men and make them do anything they want. All I'm saying here is that you can use this to counter that nagging. Win him again, make him feel like he really has that home and that family he dreams about.



4.Build bridges: The nagging won't stop until you win his family too. Upper Egyptians are set in their ways but they don't mind people who are different as long as they don't come on too strongly. For example, women there wear long gowns and only show their face, when a visiting lady arrives with a tank top and mini skirt well... it's the shock thing all over again. I can not stress enough how diplomatic you need to be with this. And be patient, he'll come around.



I really hope I helped, as this is a very sad thing to hear.

Good luck.

Answer 8

Hello



First i would like to introduce my self , i am Egyptian from Cairo working in Sharm and married from a foreigner girl ,



SOME of People from Upper Egypt are more closed minded



Me personally have no problems with my wife we are married 5 years now and got 2 kids ( Thanks GOD )



At the begging i had lots of attacks specially from my family ( Like why i don't marry an Egyptian girl that will know my needs and my thinking and .. bla bla bla )

And specially why i will marry a girl has experience before me and i will not be the first man in her life --> This point is really touching every Arabic man so much especially the families



It is some thing always the man will keep thinking off even if he married you already but still he will keep thinking of ESPECIALLY if he is from upper Egypt that even more ,



For me i had this as well at the beggining but becasue i really love my wife i did fight them back



My wife she converted to be a Muslim and she really do respect my country and my tradition , i didn't ask her to cover u her hair but she still wear a normal cloth and we both having totally a normal life , Yes we live in Sharm El-Sheikh so it is a lot easier for both of US as no way for her to live in Upper Egypt as she will be like in a Zoo park and every one will keep looking to her as she in a cage inside the zoo as just she got a colored eyes and colored hair



But again i did fight and at the end she proven to my family that she is good and now they love her so much



again i know that it will be difficult and if you need to take my personal advice ( DON"T LIVE IN UPPER EGYPT ) and if your husband loves you he will fight all the world for you



You are from the other side of the earth and i can see you are so good and trying to do your best to make him happy and to respect every one around you but you will be at the end the one who had experience before him and he is not first man in your life and people will keep telling him that and this really will hurt him and every time he will hear that he will come back home very angry and will fight with you for any reason , I am sorry for you but you are coming to the most place in EGYPT with restricted rules and traditions



Hope my above answers will help you in your decisions and should you have any questions you are welcome to email me or contact me



Thank you & Regards



Waleed Otify

Answer 9

I am really so sorry for whats happening to you, No wife or person ever needs to be treated like that.



Im a british woman, whos married to an egyptian man. Ive lived in egypt for 2 years with him.

Your husband sounds very controlling, its not in islam to control a wife, you suppose to work together. Woman are allowed also to go out, they dont have to stay locked away in a house this is not islam.



Your neighbours sound like horrible people, Im sure the wives are unhappy, no one unless they are deeply disturbed would be happy being in a house 24 hours a day.

Im a british muslim, me and my husband are not strict, we practive islam as it is in the quran. I wear a head scarf, but I wear normal clothes, jeans and top etc.



Dont let anyone tell you, your not suppose to yell back, because arguments are never one sided, But instead of yelling, why dont you try to calm down, and the talk to him even if he is shouting. Im not saying dont shout back just see his reaction if you talk your point iunstead of yelling.



Not all egyptian men are like your husband, its seems you unluckily fell in love with the strict angry types. Im sorry to say, but hes unlikely to change. My sister in law is sort of in the same situation, her hubby whos egyptian wants her to wear the full black nikab gown and to cover her face, dont go out etc etc..

At first she agreed, but now shes faught for her freedom of choice, to wear normal modest clothes, and to wear only a scard, to show her face.



You no some egyptian woman hate that egyptian men marry anyone outside, they hate foreigners marrying egyptian men. Your neighbours seem to be some of those woman.

They are obvioulsy no good people, who want to start fights between you two, which if definatly NOT islam. They should be trying to help a marriage not try to ruin it.



Is it possible to move out of that building? maybe your husband is being influenced by these radicals?

How was your husband before you got married? and also if your husband was so islamic and strict how come he married someon who wasnt a muslim?



Just because you are married he does not have the right to push you to convert, you have to willingly embrace islam, not just convert for his sake. Tell him this if he mentions it.

Also do you have any children?



with children it could become more complicated, so if you have none, think before you start. As he will want the childrent to be muslim, will you fight this or not?



Its very good if you embrace islam, but no ones should force you. Try reading the quran and some islamic books aimed for beginners, there are books all about how husbands should treat there wifes which will be useful to you.



Divorce should only be the last option, you should try talking to your husband, about how your feeling about the neighbours, about his behaviour, about how he wants you to be as a wife, if hes saying to stay in the house24 hours, and dont talk ton anyone, dont work, tell him its not his right to deprive you from this.



ask if you could move buildings, or even invite your neighbours over for dinner try to show your a loving person who loves your husband.



if all else fails, and you feel no longer love for your husband, and you wish to escape the depression, ask him for a divorce. Maybe if he feels your being serious about a divorce, he will lighten up.



by the way, no egyptian woman is an angel, all of them has faults, like any other person. None of them are the perfect wife.

And egypt has one of the highest rates of divorce.



MOst of egyptian women will never put up with what your going through, I myself wouldnt stayunless he changed.

Answer 10

I fought back my tears when I read your story. I 'm extremely sad...



Many people here commented and gave you very good advices.





I have some proved ideas and advise you to follow this plan. I'm sure it will work and prove success, en shaa' Allah (God willing):



1- Please STOP yelling. In Egyptian, Arab and Middle Eastern Culture, when a woman screams or yelling at her husband then she is a bad woman, i.e. does not respect here husband.



A wife shall control herself and be calm when her husband is angry.



2- When he tells you that you a bad wife, he does not means that you not faithful or not good. He just wants to tell you that you do not respect him.



3- I suggest choosing a good time, tonight for example, and telling him:



((My darling husband, I want to speak with you frankly and heartily.



I want to open a new page based upon mutual understanding and let us first clarify every thing and close this page.



I never thought in yelling at you or disobeying you, but this happens out of my mind at the moments of extreme anger and, at the same time, there are some cultural differences yet I want to understand.



I love you more than I can say in words; I want to do every thing make our life better. I want our marriage to be a successful one with beautiful children. In the anger moments one of us may say or do something unacceptable or out of mind, but not really meant to say or do it. ))





Then let him speak and you listen attentively and respectfully. After this ask him this strikingly important question:



((Tell me my darling how should I deal with our neighbors? Should I visit them or how to speak with them?))



I mean to let him tell you every thing about them and explain to you how to deal with them.



After finishing your and his speech, agree with him on opening a new page in your life, and I'm sure that every thing will be okay, with some smart tactics from your part as a wife loves her husband.



4- As a man, I want to tell you the password to the heart of any Egyptian, Arab Middle Eastern husband:



- Be calm as possible as you can when he is angry



- Listen to him and explain your viewpoint respectfully and in a low voice; in a way that your neighbors can not hear you,

- Express your love honestly





- Try to ask him about his parents, his brothers, his work, his past education, his village. This will make him feel that he occupies an important corner in your heart and you want to know every thing about his life because he is your lover. The majority of men considers this a sign of importance in their wives' hearts



- Try to go out with him and wear clothes that cover your body.





- Obey him and say yes when he is angry, then try to calmly discuss the matter with him.





May Allah help you and make your marriage a success.



My heart with you, and we all waiting ant eager to hear from you very soon.





Regards,

Answer 11

Well , first of all get closer to your husband and try to get sometime where you and him get some peace and try to solve all problems. your neighbors cannot do anything if your husband is wanting you. and about yelling , most egyptian men do not like their wives yelling at them ( thet do not like loud women voices). you can defend yourself in a calm voice. after he finishes yelling at you , go to him and try to solve it in peace. about your neighbors just limit your relations with them and forget them. good luck

Answer 12

You need a divorce. Does not sound like a healthy relationship.

Answer 13

I can feel the pain coming through your words and it makes me extremely sad. I also have to say that you have received so many really good answers in this thread that I'm sorry that I am not at level 2 so I can give them all thumbs up as every one had such valid points. Mohab and Excursions especially, your posts really reverberated with me.



I strongly recommend that you get your husband alone and talk to him from the heart. First, stop the yelling. Yelling is not going to cut it. As a woman who people always describe as 'strong,' I completely understand not wanting to sit quietly while someone raises their voice to you, but you have a bigger agenda now. You need to find the man you married (and hope that this wasn't him all along). This is going to sound corny but when he starts yelling, ask him why he's yelling. Then let him know that you are his wife, you will not be disrespected and when he's willing to talk to you like a human being you'll be ready and willing to listen. You may have to let him get a bit off his chest first before he drops the convo for a later time, otherwise he may feel you're dismissing him and trying to control the conversation. BTW, Egyptians never think they're yelling. Veins will be popping out their forehead and they'll say this is their 'normal voice' :-). Don't lower yourself to his level when he acts like this. If you remain calm, he might be shamed into seeing how he's overreacting.



2) He needs to either be a partner, be single or find someone who is compatible with his views of what a wife are. And so do you! I'm sorry but you cannot fix this marriage by yourself. It is extremely important to me that a husband and wife are PARTNERS, and I mean 'to infinity and beyond.' Without that, you can forget about it. It needs to be you and him (and God) against the world...and that 'world' includes your extended families. I know Egyptians are very family-oriented, but if a man who is supposed to know my heart and the very inner workings of my soul, will side with his family over me then I don't want him. Most Western women would never let someone speak ill of their husbands. (I don't know that many Egyptian women so I can't speak for them, sorry). I am not saying to alienate family or that they're not extremely important, but partners need to educate people outside their relationship on the virtue of their spouses, not let others influence them in the opposite direction. Like Excursions said, if a man fights for his wife and shows she is deserving of respect, everyone else will either eventually come around or be left behind.



3) Your neighbors interfering in your marriage is unacceptable! Stop trying to appease them. They continue to comment because you continue to show that you actually care what they think. Your cowtowing to their uninvited 'two cents' validates their opinions to your husband, sets them up as judge and jury and makes you seem 'less than'. Stop. It. Right. Now. You've tried to impress them and they still dislike you; what do you have to lose? At least if you start ignoring them, you'll have your peace of mind.



4) Get your husband out of their clutches by help him flex his brain muscles. Let him know that you married a strong man and you are surprised that he is allowing other people to control him (warning - he will not be amused). Make him see that it makes no sense that these other two couples interfere in your marriage, go home to their apartments, cuddle and go to sleep happy, and you guys go to bed angry with your marriage in shambles. With friends like that, he doesn't need enemies. I would also let him know that it's the two of you two living there, he knows you, they don't and that they can basically bite you! Ok, maybe don't say that :-) I told you I"m not good with putting up with nonsense.



5) Reclaim control! You must pull yourself together and focus on the right things. I know your marriage is all you can think about now but pls put this desperation to save your marriage into perspective. First, you must take care of you. Get your health (and your personality!) back. When your husband sees that you are a self-sufficient, calm woman, confidently in charge of your household and sincere in trying to be a good wife, he will (at least he should!) begin to question the outside interference. Work at your marriage the best you can and if it works, great and if not, find someone that is worthy of you. Marrying someone from another culture takes understanding and adjustment ON BOTH SIDES. It's ridiculous that some men think that it's the Western woman that has to cover her head and learn how to make molokiya and they can stay exactly the same. Your husband made the decision to marry an American. He has to make concessions too. If he wanted exactly what he had in Egypt, he should have imported an Egyptian woman from his village.



No one likes to fail, but you need to seriously think about what you're willing to sacrifice to make this marriage work. Your health? Dignity? Personality? Your freedom? Yourself?!! You know who you are and what you stand for. You are not trash and no one has the right to constantly belittle you because of their own insecurities. A strong man does not need to control his wife. He welcomes a strong woman, knowing that if he treats her like a queen she will be a warrior at his side when he needs her to, or stand supportively behind (beside) him as he fulfills his role as the head of the household.



So try to sit down with him without anger and speak your heart (try not to cry). Many people mentioned moving and it's a great idea but it's only a bandaid if you don't fix the root of the problem.



Sidebar: I know many Western women who lament about arguing with some of their (Upper) Egyptian husbands and how it's like talking to a wall. I'm sure you're nodding your head in agreement as you read this :-) because goodness knows sometimes I feel like I'm talking a different language with my friends when we're 'arguing' and they feel strongly about something. I swear I have literally felt my eyes begin to cross, my brain overheat and words my mother would faint at come to the brink of my lips. They are adamant in their position even when they're completely wrong! So, if your husband seems impenetrable during a discussion, put the conversation off. He will not be listening to you. Leave things alone and approach him again when things are more lighthearted. What will probably happen is that he will mull over the bits and pieces he's heard and come up with his own great idea / solution i.e the stuff you've been saying all along. I think that trait is universal. :-)



Lastly, and pls take this in the spirit in which its intended. I'm not sure how long you knew your hubby before you got married and how long dated, but the one thing I always say to Western women is talk, talk, talk and when you think you've asked every question in the book ask another one. Look, listen and observe. And I'm not talking about cute questions like, 'do you want a boy or a girl?' Ask real questions about their views, about what they expect from you and from your union...and then listen! People show us who they are, sometimes we just ignore the warning signs. I know people say Egyptians are good at telling you whatever you want to hear but ask your questions fifty different ways and 100 different times! If they're putting on a show they won't be able to keep up the pretense for long. I doubt your husband thinks any differently now than he did four months ago and the fact that things are going badly so soon rings alarm bells with me. So if you didn't ask before, ask now. What does he want? What does he expect from a wife? From this marriage? What will make him happy? Then listen! Don't whitewash stuff saying 'aww, he doesn't really mean that'. He does and he will not change! Also, I think the age difference plays a role, especially if he as conservative as you say. Then comes the hard part. Honestly ask yourself if you can give him what he wants in a wife and if he can fulfill your needs as a husband. If the answer is no, end it now before you completely hate each other.



Good luck and may God bless, comfort and guide you.



I'm sorry, I know this was long.



KC